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4:42 pm
June 26, 2011
How low ????? my bet it will drop to 9 cents by mid Nov
5:16 pm
April 4, 2011
Could really push the lower boundaries, but I doubt Finskiy wants the share price to tank too much, as he does have $30,000,000 in CMM and about $75,000,000 in WTG. Regardless he has enough control of shares to heavily influence whether the price goes up or down.
If WTG is going to be gobbled up quickly by Intergeo or Polyus you can expect further devaluation of WTG after the merger on top of being diluted 60%. I think it will be further devalued because if they were able to pull off this major dilution legally, what's stopping them from doing it again? Polyus, Intergeo or maybe another intermediary company might offer another paper deal further diluting your positions. It's a very bad situation to be in honestly, which was why the CSC was put together.
This stock has been very interesting over the time in which I've owned it, and has really illustrated the huge risk/reward profile of micro caps. From now on though I'll stick to micro caps/small caps with proven management like B2gold, US gold, etc.
Good luck fellow CMM'ers.
6:31 pm
April 4, 2011
Speaking about strong trusted management and great property, production etc. you may also want to check out UC Resources (UC-TSX-V). As for the CMM price, I wonder what is going to be the fair value for our shares before they get gobbled up inside White Tiger? They should be looking at CMM pre merger for a fair price IMO.
10:09 pm
April 4, 2011
The listing of Intergeo or Polyus will no longer be a cakewalk for Finskiy & Prokhorov. With the Sino-Forest debacle, and other RTO deals (like WTG), the OSC and the TSX are watching the financial landscape much more carefully.
Finskiy will also need some new infusion of cash into his WTG/CMM entity. Lenders & equity investors will be pretty reluctanct to put cash into a dead horse.
It will be a new learning curve for Max (if he is willing to learn)!
9:46 am
April 4, 2011
I've had several emails and PM's asking whether I was planning to sell or hold. I am NOT SELLING.
Although I consider all opinions expressed and respect the posters making them, I personally am not buying the theory that there will be another RTO in short order by Intergeo or Zaruma Resources. These are base metal companies not gold companies. Polyrus may attempt a takeover at some time in the future if that is what Max wants, but I get the sense that Max wants to build his own mid-tier gold company and Century has the assets to begin that process.
If Max really was interested in driving Century into the ground to get it all for himself at a cheap price, then Century would not be maintaining forecasts for gold production for this year and subsequent years. The company would not be saying that the revised 43-101 numbers are temporary. I am convinced that as soon as the Merger passes its final hurdles, that there will be a dramatic turnaround in production. The MIC claims that Lamaque will produce 46,000 ozs this year which means about 37,000 oz in the last 6 months. Add 10,000 oz from San Juan and we are very nearly a 100,000/oz per year producer, not counting the production from Savkino.
I don't know of any 100,000 oz producers that have a market cap less than $500 million. At a share price of $1.00 for the new WTG, the market cap will be about $300 million. A $1 share price is equivalent to 40-cent CMM shares. I don't see the point in selling my shares for half price.
11:10 am
April 4, 2011
I would agree Carib. I too am holding. I think that the CMM shareprice is being dictated by 'panicked' sellers. Irrationality is being gobbled up at 20cents by those who see value…even at a 0.4 hit within a week. Max is holding WTG steady above 80 cents (because he can of course).
1:04 pm
April 4, 2011
Hypothetical question, what happens if Century goes down to single digits? Will this have an effect on the new combined companies starting price via 0.4 to 1 ratio we are being offered? In my opinion they should have halted trading a while ago, to prevent the dumping of our hard earned shares.
Thanks,
1:06 pm
April 4, 2011
Carib said:
I've had several emails and PM's asking whether I was planning to sell or hold. I am NOT SELLING.
Although I consider all opinions expressed and respect the posters making them, I personally am not buying the theory that there will be another RTO in short order by Intergeo or Zaruma Resources. These are base metal companies not gold companies. Polyrus may attempt a takeover at some time in the future if that is what Max wants, but I get the sense that Max wants to build his own mid-tier gold company and Century has the assets to begin that process.
If Max really was interested in driving Century into the ground to get it all for himself at a cheap price, then Century would not be maintaining forecasts for gold production for this year and subsequent years. The company would not be saying that the revised 43-101 numbers are temporary. I am convinced that as soon as the Merger passes its final hurdles, that there will be a dramatic turnaround in production. The MIC claims that Lamaque will produce 46,000 ozs this year which means about 37,000 oz in the last 6 months. Add 10,000 oz from San Juan and we are very nearly a 100,000/oz per year producer, not counting the production from Savkino.
I don't know of any 100,000 oz producers that have a market cap less than $500 million. At a share price of $1.00 for the new WTG, the market cap will be about $300 million. A $1 share price is equivalent to 40-cent CMM shares. I don't see the point in selling my shares for half price.
Hey Carib. Always intrigued to see your viewpoint on the matter.
I agree with you about Intergeo. When I researched Intergeo I found that they were a base metals company, and the idea that WTG might merge with Intergeo seemed a little suspect. But the fact that they are going public and offering a small bit of their company at an inflated value makes me think that it is plausible. That's what Finskiy did before, he purchased almost all of the WTG shares, left a small amount to float. But yeah, I agree with you in saying Intergeo is about 30% of less probable.
Polyus is huge AND they produce gold, I can see the thought of them consolidating more excellent gold producers like WTG. But that doesn't seem like a near term objective for Polyus given the fact that WTG and CMM aren't producing anything and are in financial ruin. Or so we're lead to believe.
What I do think is possible is another empty shell like WTG taking over the newly formed WTG/CMM. It was too easy for them to steal CMM, not to want to attempt it again diluting whatever leftover shareholders there might be. Also now that they're located in the BVI I'm not sure of the legal implications this will have on whatever minimal shareholder remedies we were given. Alongside the fact that the person your invested with is a shark.
I kind of agree on the point you make about Finskiy wanting to build his own mid tier, but the fact that he has control is unsettling to say the least. I haven't decided if I want to remain invested in a high growth company controlled by a person that sold us down the river.
6:59 am
April 4, 2011
Final Court order is this Friday. I would expect that following issuance of the final court order the articles of arrangement will be filed within a couple business days. It is probable that by next Friday or so CMM will be delisted and your shares/warrants/options will be converted to WTG instruments.
I still believe that selling currently would be to sell at the bottom. It would probably be smart to buy! We have been focussing alot on negative outcomes (i.e. RTO, SP suppression etc..) Rightly so…given what has transpired. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that this will continue. I don't see why this would continue if Mssr Finskiy is actually trying to build a mid-tier.
With the new WTG name – I would expect they will seize the opportunity to promote the resources and the future plans. I have to believe that the only way that Mssr Finskiy can polish up his name is to show that the business combination was the right thing to do. Intergeo will not be a successfuly IPO (if ever it does occur) without Finskiy showing some kind of positive track record.
I think we will see statements in upcoming NR's to the effect that "as a result of new capital infusion"…"analyst confidence in the future business plan"…"updated NI43-101 has vastly increased…as a result of robust computer modelling"…"flow through financing…drilling has identified high value targets…" etc.
Bear in mind we have had absolutely NO drilling results, no gold production updates, no BD, NW, LF etc updates.
I believe that some of the YES voting blocks were reminded of the above roll-out plans – you don't see much volume dumping.
Surely this would be the wisest way to procede for WTG management and Finskiy.
7:06 am
August 31, 2011
Market sentiment today, with people moving out of gold, may cause CMM (and other miners) to take another hit. Oil down $5 and gold down by $70 so far today.
7:30 am
April 4, 2011
not sure why gold taking a huge dip, US and Euro Fundamentals are still horrible, this prob short drop to go over 2k
7:33 am
April 4, 2011
Also SP of both companies has nothing to do with gold right now.
9:27 am
April 4, 2011
Things to mull over:
1) Besides Mssr Finskiy – all other shareholders of WTG bought at $1. Therefore, they are under water by 20% if they haven't sold off.
2) Sugar bought 20,000 shares at 1.17.9USD on September 14 of this year.
3) Scola bought 17,000 shares at 1.16 on Sept 14 of this year.
Regarding 1) above: I would say WTG won't plunge below 80 cents: Unless Mssr Finskiy initiates it. It won't be the guys that bought the PP at $1 doing it…they would have bailed already..or are standing firm. Therefore, I believe that by next week – CMM should move to meet the 0.4 ratio at or about 32 cents. As such, it's a great buy currently.
Regarding 2) and 3) above: These guys are very close to Finskiy. They know exactly what is going on. Would they have bought these if they didn't expect a shareprice appreciation?
2:56 pm
April 4, 2011
doc said:
Things to mull over:
1) Besides Mssr Finskiy – all other shareholders of WTG bought at $1. Therefore, they are under water by 20% if they haven't sold off.
2) Sugar bought 20,000 shares at 1.17.9USD on September 14 of this year.
3) Scola bought 17,000 shares at 1.16 on Sept 14 of this year.
Regarding 1) above: I would say WTG won't plunge below 80 cents: Unless Mssr Finskiy initiates it. It won't be the guys that bought the PP at $1 doing it…they would have bailed already..or are standing firm. Therefore, I believe that by next week – CMM should move to meet the 0.4 ratio at or about 32 cents. As such, it's a great buy currently.
Regarding 2) and 3) above: These guys are very close to Finskiy. They know exactly what is going on. Would they have bought these if they didn't expect a shareprice appreciation?
I'm not really concerned about the minority shareholders as it isn't Finskiy's job to guarantee minority capital gains. If he wants to sell WTG down the river just like CMM he can and he will if he wants to.
As for the management positions in WTG at $1.10, I like the idea of thinking that the price can go back to $1.10 driving ours to 0.44 technically. But honestly, they're inside positions of 37,000 shares in total, about $40,000. That's nothing.
If it was closer to a million I'd feel more assured.
I honestly have no idea why they're dabbling with 37,000 shares. It reminds me when union securities I think was buying and selling 200 or 300 shares a day of CMM.
7:45 am
June 29, 2011
I'm almost positive that White Tiger is going to stand on it's own for awhile. I was told firsthand by a person that I trust that Max's vision is to build his own mid-tier Au producer and that 3-4 years down the road, he wants to be a player at that level. This whole game has been lining up his ducks in a row to work towards that.
I admire anyone with a dream or a vision, what I don't admire is someone that takes away other's dreams to facilitate achieving his own. As far as I am concerned, he might as well have stolen my wallet. I see no difference between that and stealing shares the way he did.
I have lost faith in any government agency actually doing their job and busting him so I believe I am going to throw my certificates in the safe and come back in 5 years and see how his vision is working out.
11:37 am
April 4, 2011
Yes, who needs investors to build a mine. Issued shares are just numbers to be accumulated. Just find a good ore body with a dark cloud over it. Other miners must be dupes to Max, they actually have to work in a system.
Takeover theft, outside of tough places like russia, involves a lot less risk than having to drilling rock and selling results to get investors. No sudden terminations, guaranteed drill results (way overstated upon closer scrutiny) it is almost guaranteed you will be sucessful a few years on.
Trouble is will how small will our (investment) shares be folded in five years?
6:28 pm
June 29, 2011
I've thought of that too…. It's six one way, half a dozen the other. My point was that the bureaucrats that are responsible for guarding our rights and keeping crap like this from happening, couldn't care less. They have government jobs, it's not like they actually have to do any work to keep them… There were so many things that they could've dove into and hung those slimeballs on, but chose not to bother with it…. Too troublesome. I have zero faith in anything being done to correct this wrong and zero faith in any regulators. The foreign control thing is not going to fly either…. way too many examples of Canadian mineral deposits being mined by outfits in the US, S. Africa, and Australia. So now the question is, sit on it and see what happens, or jump out at a huge loss? Decisions, decisions….
1:23 am
April 4, 2011
"…I was told firsthand by a person that I trust Max's vision is to build his own mid-tier Au producer…"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Does it mean Max is trying to be his own man n wish to be out of the shadow of Pokhorov?.If so, is it good or bad for we CMM small retailers? No idea how to read such a scenario.
3:22 am
April 4, 2011
Nothing to read I think. Those guys, each is completely able on his own, on his own scale. They collaborate where required and get rewarded as agreed. And they don't screw each other's plans. Dumb idea that would be.
Max is perfectly able to do his own thing. Good? Only your market price knows.
And I think the ideal company for Max is not even market listed. Large problem that in the gold business.
7:07 pm
April 4, 2011
I would like to hear relic and caribs take on this along with the falling CMM share price.
7:08 am
June 29, 2011
It is a tough read…
Believe it or not, there are a few decent people that are working for Max in high positions. They are not that proud of what is going on, but they are in up to their necks and don't have much of a choice in things either. Many took shares when the company could not pay it's bills or salaries awhile back and now, in a sense, they are in the same boat as us. This person firmly believes that this stock will go up and they are hanging tough and keeping their salary job while at the same time hoping that all the stock they accumulated is not going to end up being worthless.
I believe they are good enough people to keep him honest (so to speak, really meaning no fudging oz's), and that they will work hard to make his vision come together. My problem is, who's to say that he won't screw them over too when the time comes? These shares may be so watered down in a few years that they will be practically worthless.
I wish I had a crystal ball. I believe we are really at the classic stock dabblers decison point now. Bail, take a loss, and then put the remaining money into a solid company, or secondly, settle in for the long haul and hope that it all rebounds down the road. It would be nice to add a third option… wait for the government to step in and snap him back, but I just don't see that happening…
This would be a good topic for happy hour.
12:24 pm
April 4, 2011
RE: "when the time comes"
Q. How soon does our production at CMM need to (have to) improve? Maybe not an issue at all?? Our resources are downgraded, that was a huge and our "unlucky" production figures are just part of the current dark cloud.
So, key to me is, Unless we begin to get a sustained move towards positive news releases ongoing I have to believe we are IN the "screw them over too time". Right now. They can re-hire when current staff loose hope and wear out.
Carib and Relic are wisely being quiet.
1:34 pm
Unquestionably, CMM Management have sequestered the operation behind a wall of silence. The question now is … WHY? Now that Major has had a chance to fully assess the numbers in a restructured NI 43-101, has $15,000,000,000 now jumped to $??,???,???,??? and it is essential that the Agnico Eagle, Kinross, Goldcorp of this world not find out for fear that a Holy Gold War would break out.
We have all seen the published assay results from Integra next door….. very impressive. Major has referred to the Lamaque gold deposits as "pancaked". Integra's results don't stop at the boundary line. The Chinese financial element in Integra's structure needs to be remembered.
And a reminder, remember San Juan…. when CMM finances collapsed, it was our proud San Juan Miners who kept CMM away from Creditor protection and all that that entails. San Juan has received hand-me-down equipment from Lamaque that, to them, looks and feels like they've now become modern.
I like labradorguy's third option…. CMM needs to be snapped back into reality….. be it Government or possibly a minority shareholder Director. Somebody that we could trust. Until that day is reached, I want to know everything that is going on and I want to know it now …. with a minority shareholder Director I could be convinced to be patient.
Eons ago, it was suggested that Max would be wise to rehabilitate his image starting firstly with minority shareholders. Thereafter, other minority shareholders would see the benefits of jumping on board, Investment houses would notice, Banks would notice, …… a comfortable chain reaction would start to Max's benefit and open new vistas for him.
Carib and Relic….. You are missed.
6:11 pm
April 4, 2011
If the markets played out without manipulation I can easily see CMM hitting around $0.60 per share and WTG dropping down to around $0.20. If this happened, then what?
7:51 pm
On the surface, it appears to me that at the point of the actual merger, if WTG=.20, then .4 X .20 = 8 cents….. I have no idea of how a CMM=.60 and WTG=.20 would play out. In effect I am of the opinion that CMM would say…. to hell with CMM @ .60, the Merger says 1 CMM = .4WTG and that's that. Take your 8 cents and like it.
My spin on the present circumstances is that WTG will be massaged down to ex. .55 and CMM will be held at .21-.22 and when/if they get Investment Canada approval to proceed…. then and only then will the merger have an official date.
And .55 WTG X .4 = .225 SURPRISE !….. nothing changed.
8:13 pm
June 29, 2011
Yeah, they have shown more than once that they have math skills over there…haha. Nothing shocks me any more. It will be great when the dust settles and all this MIA gold starts to suddenly re-appear underneath the mine. You can't get drama like this on TV….
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